Dannii Minogue on Simon Cowell's vanity, how Sharon reduced her to tears, and her rivalry with Cheryl Cole
By Rebecca Hardy
Last updated at 11:00 PM on 14th November 2008
Dannii Minogue: The X Factor judge says she and Cheryl don't hang out - but that she remains fond of Simon
Dannii Minogue is waving her fork around during lunch in a west London gastropub as she lays into Simon Cowell. Simon, you see, has let slip that 'pretty much everyone' he knows uses Botox. Pretty much everyone, that is, except the newest, youngest, shiniest addition to The X Factor judging panel, Girls Aloud's Cheryl Cole.
Now, Cheryl and Dannii have... well, let's call it 'history'. Dannii, 37, dismissed Girls Aloud as 'chavs'; Cheryl, 25, mocked Dannii's cosmetic surgery. Dannii is now indignant that Simon seems to have sided with the new girl.
'He's got more Botox in his body than anyone on TV ever. The fact that he should comment about that...' Dannii fumes, stabbing a piece of cod. Besides, she points out, she doesn't do Botox anymore. She pushes up her fringe, shows me her forehead and frowns.
'It changes your face - you can see that with Simon. Did you see the TV awards? [Cowell recently won the Special Recognition Award at the National Television Awards.]
In the footage they went back to his Pop Idol days, and I think it's hilarious the amount he's changed over the years. But he seems to be pretty open about it. I liked his answer when he was asked what he would take to a desert island if he could only have one thing. He said, "A mirror, otherwise I'd miss myself". He means it. He's that vain. He loves himself - he really does. And he's very honest about it. He says, "If I'm not going to say I'm great, who else is?" You can only admire that, and that's why people love him.'
His girlfriends? Dannii laughs so much she almost chokes on her fish. These days, she's a dab hand at the Punch and Judy slapstick that has made The X Factor such a must-watch.
The morning we meet, there have been reports she's going to be dumped from the next series. Apparently, Cheryl has usurped her in the younger, prettier stakes. When I put this to her, plucked eyebrows meet in a genuine frown. 'Look, nobody's safe,' she says. 'Louis Walsh left, then he came back. I don't run the show, so I'll accept whatever happens - but I'd love to be there. As far as I know it's just a silly story.'
What about Cheryl? Are the suggestions of rivalry between them silly, too? 'Cheryl and I don't hang out outside work, and in the studio we're all very competitive. The judges are as much a part of the reality TV as the contestants. I try to stay away from the media hype - I go to work and do my job, but I understand that it gets everyone talking.'
Whatever she may feel about Cheryl, Dannii is actually rather fond of Simon Cowell. He was, after all, 'incredibly supportive' last year when a series of catfights erupted between her and queen judge Sharon Osbourne.
Dannii has stopped the Botox to reveal an extraordinarily expressive face
Louis sided with his old mucker Sharon, amid rumours that they regularly reduced Dannii to tears. She's relieved that the nastiness has ended following Sharon's departure from the show. 'Last year I had the best fun on the show, but there were ups and downs with Sharon,' she says.
'The hardest thing, having been such a fan of the show and the judges, was thinking, "Oh my God, I'm going to meet Sharon Osbourne" - then I walked into the room and she hated me. There was nothing I could do to change that, and it continued for the whole series. For ages I was asking myself, "What have I done wrong?" But the answer was just being there on the show and being female.'
It didn't help that Dannii also happens to be extremely pretty. I first interviewed her years ago when she was fresh from Australia and divorced from Nip/Tuck actor Julian McMahon, who also happened to be the son of a former Australian prime minister.
Botoxed from the scalp down, in those days she seemed brittle, plastic - the surgically-enhanced kid sister trying to keep in step with superstar Kylie.
Today, a decade older, she's much softer. I'm struck, not by the frozen pantomime face, but by her extraordinary eyes that seem to change colour depending upon her mood, one minute green, the next blue, but always empathetic.
Dannii is, in truth, an emotional woman, the sort who wears her heart on her sleeve. She always has been, but it's easier to know what she's thinking now she's stopped the Botox. For instance, when I mention her new squeeze, former Leeds Rhinos rugby league player Kris Smith, 30, her face lights up like a Christmas tree.
'I met him on holiday in the summer in Ibiza. I certainly wasn't looking to be with someone younger. But you meet someone, you like them... Let's just say I'm happy.' She beams. I wonder about marriage and children.
Following her divorce in 1995, she was engaged to French-Canadian racing driver Jacques Villeneuve. 'For me, having children is an extension of being with someone, loving them and bringing children into a happy environment. All the headlines about Kylie and me - "unhappy in love", "desperately single" - that's not how we are. Of course, when you're single you think, "I'd love to share my life with someone." That's how I've always been. My dream would be to be with someone I love to be with, but it has to be the right person.'
It would be nice to see Dannii happily settled. She has, after all, been through the mill in the past few years. Firstly, her sister was diagnosed with breast cancer, quickly followed by her best friend, who died of the disease at the age of 36.
With model and actor Julian McMahon on their wedding day
'Kylie was on tour in Australia when she found out she had cancer and I was in London,' she says. 'It was awful being so far away and trying to get on the first plane home before the news hit the headlines. Unfortunately, it didn't work out that way and I was chased, like a hunted animal, by the media. It was extremely distressing.
'I don't see Kylie as my famous sister. We're just two girls in a family. We all wanted to protect her and for her to get better. It was difficult to have the world looking in on something private, analysing and assessing it.
'There are always moments in your life when you throw your hands up and say, "Why?", even though you know you're not going to get an answer. It never crossed my mind that Kylie was going to do anything other than get better. There was no way I could think of anything other than that. I just thought, "We've got to make her better."
'You start dipping into parts of your personality you weren't aware of before, because you'd never needed that sort of strength. There was a two-year period where it was just all hospitals and medical talk. Some days it was a real challenge. The treatments are exhausting and long. There are lots of questions - lots of new information every day. You don't know what's going on.
'Some days you get up and think, "I can't deal with this any more. I want to escape." Your mind plays tricks. You just have to be strong. Sometimes you glide through the difficult days; other times you think, "There's no way I'll make it to the end of the day." But you get on with it and you get through it.'
Kylie was nearing the end of her treatment when Dannii's close friend, whom she'd known for ten years and whose name she won't reveal, died. Her death so affected Dannii that, until recently, she's found it impossible to talk about her. Even now, she's often moved to tears.
'There was a period where she was in hospital undergoing treatment and there was hope. Then there was this sudden realisation that she was never going to come out of hospital.
Going there every day and seeing her being so brave was something else. I know now that not everything goes the way you want it to, but what's important is how you deal with those things.' How did she? 'I don't know. I'm still trying to work that out. I'm still trying to understand why my friend died. I still don't.'
Inspired by her friend and sister, Dannii has become involved in raising funds for the Olivia Newton-John Cancer and Wellness Centre Appeal, and took part in a sponsored walk along China's Great Wall earlier this year.
Not only did Dannii fulfill a lifetime's dream meeting her childhood idol, but Olivia, who is herself in remission from breast cancer, also asked her to work as an ambassador for her charity. 'Some days I don't even want to acknowledge that cancer exists,' she says. 'But on this walk I wanted to confront everything I've been through.'
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Dannii is certainly made of steely stuff. She's been performing since she was seven and, in tough times, pulls her shoulders back and thinks, 'eyes, tap, teeth' - get out there, tap dance and smile.
She was appearing as a judge on Australia's Got Talent when Cowell saw a video of the show and thought she'd be great for The X Factor. 'Like most people, work is my escape. It helps take your mind off unhappy things. I didn't have a partner at time, which was hard. Even though I had my family around me, I've always been able to throw myself into my work.
'And Simon was a very good friend. When I joined The X Factor, I never thought I'd experience the nastiness I did. I understand that it was hard for Simon, Sharon and Louis to adjust to there being a fourth judge. But I was put there to make a difference to the show. I just didn't think it would have such a negative effect.'
But Sharon and Dannii are said to have had several furious behind-the-scenes rows, as well as one particularly heated on-screen confrontation, which resulted in the British star storming off the show. Sharon also claimed that Dannii was only on the show because she was younger, prettier and that Simon fancied her.
Dannii continues, 'the arguing really rocked Louis as well. He was upset because Sharon was. He was a really good friend of hers and sided with her. He said a lot of awful things about me last year. There were times when he seemed to be always getting at me, and I had to tell him to stop.' In fact, in one programme, Mrs Osbourne was seen chuckling as Louis poked fun at Dannii's singing ability.
'This was all happening backstage. It wasn't hyped. When you had Sharon appearing on Graham Norton's TV show talking about her hatred for me, and then I had to face her at work the next day, it was really hard.' Did they make her cry? 'Yes,' she says. 'I'm strong, but I can fall to pieces just like most people. I tried to get through it in private and deal with it in my own way. But I wasn't strong every day. Yes, it did upset me. Some days Sharon was nice to me and other days she wasn't.
'In the end we just stayed as far away from each other as we could. Obviously, the headlines were fantastic for the show, but I was honest to Simon. I said, "This is very difficult, very scary. How do I get through this?" He knew I was still dealing with losing my friend.'
Cowell gave Dannii confidence and taught her how to advise her singers. Last year, she mentored Leon Jackson, who went on to win the competition, and this time she has the over 25s. She says she remains fiercely competitive and protective of her proteges. But there have been reports that one of her acts, 26-year-old Rachel Hylton, has threatened to fire her mentor because she feels that Dannii is not giving her the right songs.
'We haven't fallen out,' she says. 'There has never been any discussion that Rachel wants to leave Team Minogue.' And then there's Daniel Evans, whose wife, Jacqueline, died last year after giving birth to their daughter. When I suggest that the 38-year-old crooner is only hanging in there on the sympathy vote, she starts waving that fork about again.
'He's still here,' she snaps back. 'It's amazing to work with someone who's been through so much. Louis and Simon are trying to get rid of him. Sometimes, I don't like to see it. I've said to the guys, "There's being constructive and there's being nasty". But Cheryl's going to be the one to beat this year. All the girls in her category are strong, and she's doing an incredible job.'
So all those stories about more fireworks among the judges, particularly Dannii and Cheryl, aren't true, then? She frowns in mock exasperation. 'Because of what happened last year, there's bound to be an interest in how we all get on. But I seem to give the answers people don't want. I've been through it before, when I first came to Britain. There were all these headlines that Kylie and I mustn't be getting along because we were in the same business.
'Funnily enough, that only stopped when Kylie was diagnosed with cancer. People saw that I loved her. She's my sister. I would do anything for her. It's just a pity they didn't listen to me when I said it before.'
The X Factor is on Saturday evenings on ITV1.
DANNII MINOGUE: A LIFE IN PICTURES
From left: A teenage Dannii practises her poses for the camera; Dannii and Kylie showing early promise; as a fresh-faced actress on Home & Away
From left: Celebrating the release of her hit single 'This Is It'; on a fundraising walk in London; at a dress rehearsal for the Royal Variety performance
From left: Attending the Australian version of the Brit awards; just-divorced Dannii sees if blondes have more fun; promoting her sell-out Unleashed tour of Britain
Left, at the film premiere of 'As Good As It Gets', and right, with her co-judge Cheryl Cole on the X Factor
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Here's what readers have had to say so far. Why not add your thoughts below?
Yeh but, Danni is fabulous and although Cheryl is beautiful she does does not have the sane attraction.
And I think Cheryl is wonderful
- Russell, Dorset, UK, 15/11/2008 0:40
She has every good reason to be jealous of Cheryl who is gorgeous!!!!
- Hazel Anne Larmour, Newtownards,N.Ireland, 15/11/2008 1:08
Danii should just age gracefully for a change
- Keith Price, Luton, England, 15/11/2008 1:08
She looks absolutely NOTHING like in earlier pictures, in fact I think she looks worse, sculpted, skinny, botoxed,fake, tucked and lipoed ! She should have stuck to being 'eau natural' she looked much prettier.
I have an old video from the Brit Awards and I would never have recognised her !
- Deb, Dorset, 15/11/2008 1:17
Yawn, what is she famous for again? Go back to Australia.........
- Jemima, Sheffield, 15/11/2008 1:25
I don't know why they all have it in for Danni I like her on the show.
- Heather, Lancaster, 15/11/2008 1:49
Lovely Dannii seems to be the most genuine of them all.
- Pamela, Hatfield UK, 15/11/2008 2:05
I like Dannii, not quite as much as Kylie, but she is ok - all this wrangling is to boost the ratings and hope for some on air spat between the girls. I am not sad that Mrs O, or the alleged Mother to the nation, is no longer on the juges panel. They are all paid very well for their contributions to the show, lest we forget. If I hated someone, I would still smile sweetly for the odd million quid. This is a money making machine, carefully executed and well orchestrated, cras, but worth watching, just for a laugh. It is always fun, thinking which comments will be used, what disease the contestants will have this week, who thinks their life will end if they are voted out, who is singing for their Mum, who wants to give their family a better life, a visit back to school, for the primed kids to cheer right on cue. Simon is certainly no fool and to be fair, he does a lot of work for animal charities, giving away large sums of money, so that gets my approval.
- Daniel, Lancashire, 15/11/2008 2:37
Danni is gracious and talented, she has always carried herself with dignity and we love her for it. Botox or not... who cares.
- James, Sydney, Australia, 15/11/2008 2:38
no wonder danni minogue is mentor for daniel and rachel , the three of them have something in common with eahc other.. they all want sympathy votes.. first with Danni its her failed marriage to julian mcmahon. then with Xfactor oh poor danni ,, sharon osbourne doesnt like her. then how she is going to get kicked off the X factor. now how cheryl is simons davourite and how ehr and cheryl dont get on... Danni have you ever thought it may be something to do with you... not every one else... for god sake get over it ...why dont you go do something constructive like pantomime you would be good in that
- pam gibbons, larnaca cyprus, 15/11/2008 6:25
A really good piece Rebecca. An interview like this shows Dannii in a very different light to the Dannii of the tabloid headlines. I think there is a lot to be admired about the lady. It seems she was just an innocent victim of "Hurrican Sharon", a girl in the wrong place at the wrong time. All credit to her for weathering the storm and coming out strong.
- terry hyatt, mansfield, uk, 15/11/2008 7:29
What is she actually good at?
- malcolm, cambridge, 15/11/2008 8:01
Dannii seems like a nice girl who just wants to work. Stop trying to create rivalry where there is none.
- meme, Leeds, 15/11/2008 8:27
It has become fashionable now for women in their 30s,40s and 50s to go out with much younger men,something they certainly know will almost certainly not last,but at least they have fun.Whatever age of your partner you choose it does not last anyway,you have a child or two and move on.Maybe they just accept the inevitable and relax.
- Gail, Bucks, 15/11/2008 8:54
Why is she a judge on a singing competition? How can she advise others when her own singing career has never taken off?
- sasha, london, 15/11/2008 8:54
Danni has gotten more gorgeous and sexy as she's gotten older. And she has oodles more talent and intelligence than Cheryl.
- steve the poacher, Lincoln, UK, 15/11/2008 9:23
Botox or no botox, she still looks plastic!
- Nathalie, Manchester, UK, 15/11/2008 9:31
What a waste of space in this paper, Yes I know its what the young public want to see , and there was me thinking there'll always be an England
D Penney
- DAVID PENNEY, Plymouth, devon, 15/11/2008 9:55
Danni Get over yourself its all part and parcel if you cant stand the heat stay out of the kitchen. Personally I'm sick to death of the lot of you, all I'm interested in are the contestants. Not you bickering infertile foursome. I'D LIKE TO SEE YOU ALL DO A DISSAPERING ACT EXEPT FOR SIMON and get a panel in that are there for the contestants and not play one off against the other Louis should be ashamed of himself .And your last Saturday show was a disgrace Laura should never in a million years been sent of some kind of fix comes to mind.
- spriggles, Brighton East Sussex, 15/11/2008 9:55
I think they should all stop bickering amounst themselves and get on with the job they are there to do.. Thats Judge not make the show all about them.
- Jacqui Weems, Southampton, 15/11/2008 10:26
A very interesting read about an inspiring woman! I love watching her on X Factor every week.
- Tom, Manchester, UK, 14/11/2008 23:21